Rather, by the onset of puberty, they were adults and were treated as such. Bullingers Companion Bible Notes,[17] Gary H. Everetts Study Notes on the Holy Scriptures,[18] George Haydocks Catholic Bible Commentary,[19] the Jamiesson-Fausset-Brown Commentary,[20] John Trapps Complete Commentary,[21] Ironsides Notes on Selected Books,[22] L.M. Bathsheba receiving letter from David, by Willem Drost (1630-1680). While there, the prophet Nathan tells David in 2 Samuel 12:8: "I would give you twice as much over," which Share. David was 30 years old when he became king, and he reigned for 40 years. There are 2 videos refuting IC on Marys age. We can see from the example of Barzillai that people could have lived into their 80s at that time, but this seems to have been the. The success of Absalom would probably have been fatal to Bath-sheba; it would certainly have barred Solomon, Ahithophels great-grandson, from the throne. Updates? He betrayed David by joining Absaloms revolt. 11:3, and 2 Sam 23:34 mentions an Eliam, the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite, one of David's "thirty". 9 However, Uriah slept at the palace entrance with all his masters servants. The name Eliam is only mentioned twice in the, But 1 Chronicles 11:36 gives the alternate name for Eliam, the son of Ahithophel as Ahijah the Pelonite, so he cannot be the same person as the father of Bathsheba!, Third, if Ahijah is an alternate name for Eliam, it still does not refute the claim that Eliam was the son of Ahithophel and the father of Bathsheba, simply because the Chronicler does not provide any additional information. Therefore, Christians now have the problem of having to find excuses to justify Davids sexual intercourse with Bathsheba and Yahwehs approval of it. for so we find with David, king of Israel, who learned from Ahitophel no more than two things, yet called him his master, his guide and his beloved friend, as it is said, But it was you, a man mine equal, my guide and my beloved friend (Psalms 55:14)., [52] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/55-23.htm, [53] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/55-23.htm, [54] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gill/psalms/55.htm, [55] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/psalms-55.html#23, [56] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/clarke/psalms/55.htm, So we find, if there be an appointed time to man upon earth, beyond which he cannot pass; yet he may so live as to provoke the justice of God to cut him off before he arrives at that period; yea, before he has reached half way to that limit. One competing interpretation may be that the subject of the psalm was Sauls murderous overtures towards David. Figure 1: Map showing how far Ahithophel would have travelled in the short-lived coup attempt by Absalom. Bathsheba | Description & Biblical Account | Britannica The relationship between Bathsheba and King David did not begin well. on 2 Samuel 11:3, and 1 Chronicles 3:5) is that the two Eliams are the same person. Christians should try to be consistent. Second point, Talmud Sanhedrin 107a says she was shampooing her hair thus, negating the fact she was taking a ritual bath, as mentioned in Talmud Eruvin 4b the whole body must be in water not hair. This tends to be the go-to argument for problematic verses. Bathsheba [2] Thus, Christians will reject the estimation of Abishag and Marys ages (approximately 12 years) because the Bible does not specifically state it and because the estimate comes from Jewish commentaries or historical evidence or even the early church fathers and not from the Biblical text.[3]. In David's old age, Bathsheba, based on David's promise, secured the succession to the throne by Solomon, instead of David's elder surviving sons by his other wives, such as Chileab (2 Samuel 3:16), Adonijah (1 Kings 1:1131) and others (2 Samuel 3:16). David's punishment came to pass years later when one of David's much-loved sons, Absalom, led an insurrection that plunged the kingdom into civil war. In verse 1, David, who was nearing death, described Solomon as young and inexperienced: Then King David said to the whole assembly: My son Solomon, the one whom God has chosen, is young [naar] and inexperienced [rak]., According to Gesenius Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon, the Hebrew word naar can refer to a newborn child or a young man as old as twenty:[74], As for rak, it is usually translated as tender or weak, and is generally used for little children:[75]. If Ahithophel was Bathshebas grandfather, then determining his approximate age would allow us to estimate Bathshebas age as well. Note that the dictionary does not deny that Ahithophel was Bathshebas granddaughter or that he was the subject of Psalm 55. David's action was displeasing to the Israelite god Yahweh ('the Lord'), who sent Nathan the prophet to reprove the king. [2] Of course, in the previous article, I showed evidence from within the Bible. Share Improve this answer Follow answered Dec 7, 2018 at 11:17 Philip 1,245 1 10 22 Add a comment Your Answer It is even in Sahih International. [68] Sanhedrin 69b, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi. This illustrates that Ahithophel was probably a young man (Source: This brings us to the most crucial point of our academic journey of determining Ahithophels age. This brings us to the most crucial point of our academic journey of determining Ahithophels age. In art the subject is one of the most commonly shown in the Power of Women topos. Part of the reason for some Christians denial about child marriage in the Bible is that the Bible does not mention any specific age at which marriage could occur. By the way, can you visit my website and comment below about what you think of my articles? Father of Bathsheba, whose first husband was a Hittite, 1 Samuel 11:3 (= 1 Chronicles 3:5 , where Eliam is called Ammiel ). King David once saw Bathsheba bathing on her terrace. Using Psalm 55:23, it would mean that Ahithophel could not have gone past the age of 45 years (note again that this is the conservative estimate). Despite being wronged and mistreated by him, Bathsheba later became David's loyal wife and protective mother of King Solomon, the wisest ruler of Israel. In fact, Ahithophel is mentioned along with Hushai the Arkite in 1 Chronicles 27:33: Ahithophel was the kings counselor. The oldest man in the Bible, after the patriarchs, was Jehoiada, who supposedly died at the age of 130 (2 Chronicles 24:15). God did not say that Uriah had sinned by marrying a 7-year old (in fact, he is always depicted as a loyal and unsuspecting victim of Davids treachery) OR that Davids sin was in having sexual intercourse with her because of her age. While every effort has been made to follow citation style rules, there may be some discrepancies. In his commentary, Ibn Kathir stated that the age of marriage coincides with the age of puberty. We will use two main sources for this: 2 Samuel and Psalm 55 (though other books will also be used). 52, or the Ziphites, Ps. Was it not inspired? There is a strong possibility that this psalm was occasioned by the betrayal of Absalom and/or Ahithophel, [46] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/wen/psalms-55.html#13, Guide Whose counsel I highly prized, and constantly followed. God gave Bathsheba a son, Solomon. This cannot refer to Absalom. But Uriah was unwilling to violate the ancient kingdom rule applying to warriors in active service. Note that this estimate is higher than the age assigned to Ahithophel by the Jewish sages. One of the most common placements in the 15th century, perhaps surprisingly, was in miniatures illustrating a book of hours, a personal prayer book, that overtook the psalter as the most popular devotional book for laypeople. Thus, it also means that he was between 4448 years old when he first encountered Bathsheba, who was 79 years old. He was 70 when he died. What was the age of both Bathsheba and King David when they He identified Ahithophel in the commentary on verse 12: Ahithophels perfidy and villany troubled David more than all the rest., [40] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/pulpit/psalms/55.htm, the general sentiment of commentators has always been that Ahithophel is intended. You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. Bathsheba was the wife of Uriah the Hittite. WebIf he became king at 30 and ruled for 40 years, he would have been approximately 70 years old when he died. (2nd Samuel 5:4), he reigned for a total of 40 years (7 in Hebron 33 in Jerusalem)Although the exact age isn't given when he Dr. J. Vernon McGee, in a commentary he gave on Thru the Bible Radio, also identified the betrayal by Ahithophel as the subject of the psalm,[48] and so does Eastons Bible Dictionary (among many others). If David was a sinner who had slept with a 7-year old, how could God describe him as a man after my own heart? By the way, I made a website and I have debunked the claim which you have made Allah the Moon God. [80] Some others do question the identification of Bathshebas father with Eliam the son of Ahithophel but do not provide concrete evidence. All which agrees to Achitophel., [47] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/whe/psalms-55.html#13, From this rapid survey of the general calamity, David turns to the chief supporter of the rebellion, his former chief counsellor, Ahithophel. Regardless, most sources reasonably identify the two Eliams as the same person, including, There is simply no reason to make assume otherwise, other than to avoid the embarrassment of finding out Bathshebas true age. And do not give the weak-minded your property, which Allah has made a means of sustenance for you, but provide for them with it and clothe them and speak to them words of appropriate kindness. Based on this seemingly contradictory information, let us follow the conservative route, as always, and assume that Solomon was around 20 years old at the time of his ascension. This is where Psalm 55 comes in. [28], David summoned Bathsheba for sex. David married the widowed Bathsheba, but their first child died as punishment from God for Davids adultery and murder of Uriah. The reality is that they were the most likely the same person. Bathsheba [97] Finally, the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature provides perhaps the best explanation (emphasis ours): Ahijah the Pelonite appears in 2 Samuel 23:34 as Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite, of which the former is a corruption; Ahijah forming the first part of Ahithophel, annd [sic] Pelonite and Gilonite differing only by and [98]. The record does not make the impression that Ahithophel was an older man than David. [105] This agrees with Biblical standards as well. [1] He was a younger brother of Shammuah The norm that the ulama did come to consensus on was only a general guideline: they prohibited sexual intercourse for girls not able to undergo it, on the basis that otherwise sex could be physically harmful. Learn how your comment data is processed. At the time of Absaloms revolt he deserted David (Psalms 41:9 ; 55:12-14). "[32] Antony F. Campbell states "The 'violation of Bathsheba' may be the least unsatisfactory terminology, especially given the ambivalence of the text's storytelling. you have contributed so much great eye opening articles making Muslims and Christians aware of such controversial subjects. [49], Among the Jewish commentaries besides the Talmud and the Targums, Rashi also identified Ahithophel as the subject of the psalm,[50] and this was also the view of the Pirkei Avot.[51]. You are committing a tu quoque fallacy!, an informal fallacy that intends to discredit the opponents argument by asserting the opponents failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s)., Thus, when Christians say that Muhammads (peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was immoral, and if Muslims were to respond by saying well, the Biblical figures married young girls too, so they are also immoral, that would be a tu quoque fallacy. [95] Holmans Bible Dictionary argues that the Chronicler may have confused the title of Helez the Paltite (2 Samuel 23:26) and that Ahijah the Pelonite was a textual corruption. Morris Jastrow, Jr., Morris et al. [74] https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5288&t=KJV, [75] https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7390&t=KJV, [76] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jfu/2-chronicles-24.html#15, [79] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque. In turn, to determine her age at the time of Solomons (David and Bathshebas second son) birth, we need to first determine Solomons age at the time of Ahithophels death. If we read 2 Samuel 12, when Nathan the prophet came to David, he provided the parable of the rich man and the poor man as a way to trap David into confessing his sin. To make matters worse, we need to allow at least 18 months (two pregnancies) between Davids first encounter with Bathsheba and Solomons birth (2 Samuel 11), which means that Bathsheba was around 79 years old at the time. The traditional ascription to David cannot on any ground be maintained. And Im about to make articles as a form of ultimate refutations to your silly allegations. Bathsheba: Bible | Jewish Women's Archive [11] The argument is that she is called the daughter of Eliam in 2 Sam. The Woman Was Very Beautiful: The Shocking Truth About Bathshebas Marriage to David in the Bible, Originally posted on the Quran and Bible Blog, From the roof he saw a woman bathing. However, this was clearly not the norm (even if true). [23], In Islam, David is considered to be a prophet, and some Islamic tradition views the Bible story as incompatible with the principle of infallibility (Ismah) of the prophets. David is described as a man of faith ( Hebrews 11 ), a man after Gods own heart ( 1 Samuel 13 ), and an ancestor of Jesus himself ( Luke 1:32 ). The world was vastly different back then. If this was the normal lifespan at the time, and the bloodthirsty and deceitful will not live out half their days, then we can reasonably estimate Ahithophels age to less than 40 years. If we assume that the four years refers to the time from the commencement of the criminal schemes (per Barnes), that means that Solomon was no older than 9 years (2+3+2+2=9). Second, the Chronicler seemed to indicate that Ahithophel was still alive when David was old and nearing death! Even if we grant a new upper limit, 90 years, that does not improve the situation for embarrassed Christian apologists. WebAlthough David married numerous women in the course of his lifetime, he never bypassed the limits imposed by the Torah . And the woman, Bathsheba, is married. Eliam, in turn, was the son of Ahitophel the Gilonite (2 Samuel 23:34). This article has offered a novel contribution to the seemingly unending and unnecessary debate between Muslims and Christians on the appropriate age of marriage and the baseless criticisms of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) for his marriage to Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her). Known For: After Saul, David was the second king of the Israelite kingdom. 5 In Hebron he reigned over Judah for 7 years and 6 months, and in Jerusalem he reigned for 33 years over all Israel and Judah. How[c] could I go home and eat, drink, and have sex with my wife? Third, if Ahijah is an alternate name for Eliam, it still does not refute the claim that Eliam was the son of Ahithophel and the father of Bathsheba, simply because the Chronicler does not provide any additional information. 23), but of Ahithophels unfaithfulness and the rebellion of Absalom (Chald., the Rabbins, and most interpreters), and indeed not after the outbreak of the rebellion, but shortly before it.. Bathsheba, also spelled Bethsabee, in the Hebrew Bible (2 Samuel 11, 12; 1 Kings 1, 2), wife of Uriah the Hittite; she later became one of the wives of King David and the mother of King Solomon. You Muslims believe Muhammad is a role model for all times!, In my view, we should leave it to the experts (e.g., physicians and psychologists) to determine what is an appropriate age for maturity, if there is one. I have also 100% debunked the claim that Allah is Best Deceiver and I have provided historical facts and grammar facts for kharul Makereen and I have explained more and made it very clear. David's genealogy in 1 Chronicles 3 says that he had 19 sons by his wives and concubines and one daughter, Tamar, whose mother isn't named in scripture. Bathsheba was a faithful wife to David. By the way, Im not a non-Muslim, but a Sunni Muslim and I apologize if I have by mistake made these allegations. WebSolomon is a possible heir and he has support as well, but he is only 12 years old and there is no obvious reason to prefer him over Adonijah. He therefore induced Absalom to commit an unpardonable crime (2 Sam. Why Was Abishag so Important to King David and And Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) knows best! Since Bathsheba could not have been older than 20 at the time (since Ahithophel was 39 years old and Eliam was probably in his late 20s), which means that at the time of Solomons birth, she was between 911 years old, with 11 being the conservative estimate based on the conservative estimate for Solomons age (9 years). She occupied an influential position as the queen mother. A minority of scholars questioned the application of the psalm to Ahithophel. Grants Commentary on the Bible,[23] Alexander McLarens Expositions of Holy Scripture,[24] R.A Torreys Treasury of Scripture Knowledge,[25] The Biblical Illustrator,[26] and The Pulpit Commentary.[27]. While David was walking on the roof of his palace, he saw Bathsheba having a bath so David placed her husband in the front lines of the battlefield, in order to get killed, so that he could marry Bathsheba." The Age Of Rebecca When She Married Isaac - Biblical Perspective, A Detailed Historical Examination Of Numbers 31:18, King Davids Marriage To 12 Year Old Abishag - Bible. Thus, it was not child marriage at the time since maturity tended to occur much earlier than it does now. Bathsheba was King David's most famous and controversial wife, in part because their marriage came after an illicit extramarital affair at the height of David's The bottom line is that there is no evidence to support the claim that there were two Eliams. Was Rebekah 3-10 Years Old When Married Off To Isaac? This illustrates that Ahithophel was probably a young man (Source: https://bibleatlas.org/giloh.htm). However, he did not further complicate or solidify his adultery by marrying her. He [David] now remembers that, at the heart of Absaloms rebellion, giving it direction and force, indeed making it possible, is Ahithophel., [33] https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/tod/ps055.cfm?a=533001, It would be idle to fix a time, and find an occasion for this Psalm with any dogmatism. David married when he slept with Bathsheba? - Answers How old was David when he met bathsheba? - Answers So, here is a summary about Ahithophel and his role during Davids reign: If Ahithophel was Bathshebas grandfather, then determining his approximate age would allow us to estimate Bathshebas age as well. This was also the conclusion of Jewish and Christian commentators. See the same link to the playlist. Shortly after Bathsheba's first (unnamed) child by David was born, Yahweh struck it with a severe illness (2 Samuel 12:15). [a]ll the expressions used in this verse would probably be applicable to Ahithophel, and to the intimacy between him and David., This was also the conclusion of the classical Jewish sources, such as the Targums and the Talmud, as explained in, But it was thou,. There is disagreement among the experts as to what age that should be. Bathsheba Was King David's Most Famous Wife - Learn [93] Also, the Midrash identified Ahithophel as Bathshebas grandfather, thereby indirectly confirming that the two Eliams were the same person.[94]. Illustration of David and Bathsheba. BibleArtLibrary / Getty Images Bathsheba was King David's most famous and controversial wife, in part because their marriage came after an illicit extramarital affair at the height of David's reign over Judah and Israel (circa 1005965 BCE). However, Absalom is not named nor is he even hinted at. [32] John Phillips, The John Phillips Commentary Series: Exploring Psalms: An Expository Commentary, Vol. Some Bible dictionaries mention both Eliams without any additional information. Its date and authorship must be left in the region of mere conjecture. )[25], Bathsheba's name appears in 1 Chronicles 3:5 spelled "Bath-shua", the form becomes merely a variant reading of "Bath-sheba". [24], Another hadith narrated from Shia scholars states that Ali Al-Ridha, during the discussions with the scholars of other religions about prophets' infallibility, asked one of them, "What do you say about David?" [45] John MacArthur, The MacArthur Bible Commentary (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, Inc., 2005), p. 636. Sometimes Bathsheba's maids or the "messengers" sent by David are shown, and often a distant David watching from his roof. [64] Traveling from Giloh to Hebron, then from Hebron to Jerusalem, and then from Jerusalem to Giloh does not sound like the itinerary of an elderly man. The table below shows a summary of This is not a matter of controversy. The son of Ahithophel (2 Samuel 23:34)., [93] https://www.studylight.org/commentary/2-samuel/11-3.html, Bath-sheba, the daughter of Eliam or Ammiel (1 Chronicles 3:5), one of Davids worthies (2 Samuel 23:34), and son of Ahithophel., [94] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ckb/a/ahithophel.html, According to the Midrash, Ahithophel was Batshebas grandfather., [95] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/p/pelonite.html, [96] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/p/pelonite.html, [97] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/p/pelonite.html, [98] https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/p/pelonite.html, [105] http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-An-Nisa/Giving-Back-the-Property-of-th, Tagged as: 2 Samuel, Absalom, Age of consent, Ahithophel, Bathsheba, Bible, Child Marriage, David, Eliam, Psalm 55, par excellence. Psalm 55 is a prayer of David asking God to save him from his enemies. Could you also so a video refuting Islam Critiqued on the age of Mary. And Ahithophel began to counsel Absalom on how to destroy David. Surah 70 Verse 30 which Christians take out of context. Thus, Solomon was 911 years old at the time of his great-grandfathers death. This was especially the case in France.[36]. [68] Similarly, Smiths Bible Dictionary states that he was approximately 32 years old and died around 1023 BCE (emphasis ours): a native of Giloh, was a privy councillor of David, whose wisdom was highly esteemed, though his name had an exactly opposite signification. Change). This is not the Muslims problem because we do not believe in the Bible as a reliable source of information. Note that this is the most conservative estimate. Moreover, I showed that when Jesus was a 12-year old boy, his parents took him to the Passover festival, as the law required for boys his age. The marriages of Uriah and David did not seem to bother anyone, including Yahweh. This was also the conclusion of the classical Jewish sources, such as the Targums and the Talmud, as explained in Gills Exposition of the Entire Bible: But it was thou,. Hence, this appeal fails to prove that the two Eliams in 2 Samuel were different people. Nathan noted that Yahweh would punish David's house for Uriah's murder and taking his wife, and would let someone close ( rea) to David take away / seize ( laqach) all his wives and have him lie with / rape ( kab) them in broad daylight for everyone to see (2 Samuel 12:912). Rather, David laments being betrayed by: a man like myself, my companion, my close friend, with whom I enjoyed sweet fellowship[28]. Some have also questioned whether Ahithophel would have been old enough to have a granddaughter. Its important to note that this is an estimate and could vary by a year or 6 Then David sent a message to Joab: Send me Uriah the Hittite. So Joab sent Uriah to David. However, this does not appear to be a reasonable assumption. Moreover, according to the Fausset Dictionary, Ahijah the Pelonite was probably a corruption of text. 12 Then David told Uriah, Stay here one more day. The answer comes from Psalm 55:23 (emphasis ours): But you, God, will bring down the wicked into the pit of decay; the bloodthirsty and deceitful will not live out half their days. [69] https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/smiths-bible-dictionary/ahithophel.html. Adonijah, the fourth son of King David from Haggith (2 Samuel 3:4). Nathan was the first child of Bathsheba that she was given the right to name. In a previous article, I demonstrated that the Bible generally allowed marriage and sex at the onset of puberty (with the exception of Numbers 31:18 which seemingly allowed sex even before puberty). He hanged himself after realizing that the revolt would fail. The admirer, King David, is not where he is supposed to be, on the battlefield with his troops, but instead has tarried at his palace. A beautiful woman, she became pregnant after David saw her bathing on a rooftop and had her brought to him. Uriah is summoned from the front There is no reason to interpret the verse allegorically. According to tradition, he was 58 years old. " : ( ) " (, "Bathsheba's Story: Surviving Abuse and Loss", "Bathsheba at the Bath, object 1 (Butlin 390) "Bathsheba at the Bath", "Ahithophel in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia", "Is There a Queen in the Kingdom of Heaven? [72] Sometime after, probably 4 years (2 Samuel 15:7) after reconciling with his father David, Absalom began his rebellion. See my videos here: I agree that Rebekah was not 3 years old. The next day 13 David called for him, and he ate and drank, and David got him drunk. 16:21), which sooner or later would have brought with it, according to Jewish law, the penalty of death; the motive for this advice being to remove Absalom, and thus to make a way for himself to the throne. Thus, Bathsheba could have been around 12-14 years old at the time of the birth of Solomon, which means that she was around 10-12 years old at the time David first encountered her. Hebr. King David Would David have called Ahithophel a man mine equal (https://biblehub.com/commentaries/cambridge/psalms/55.htm). The man said, She is Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam This does not mean that Muslims should marry their 9-year old children in modern times, because as stated above (see objection #5), people we would consider children in our times were not necessarily considered as such in ancient times. Oops, Im sorry, I thought you were Christian. Considering she was old enough to be married yet still without children, Bathsheba was likely 16-19 years old in the story. [78] Finally, in Acts 13:22, God is quoted as testifying about David as a man after my own heart. Rather, my argument is that there was nothing Biblically wrong or immoral about Muhammads marriage to Aisha and that it was common practice in virtually all cultures for people to marry young (usually by the onset of puberty). According to Karl Budde the interpolated portion is 12: 7, 8, and 1012; according to Friedrich Schwally and H. P. Smith, the whole of 12: 115a is an interpolation, and 12:. They will vociferously deny that Bathsheba was around 7 years old (or perhaps as old as 9) when she first encountered David and they will deny that she was the granddaughter of Ahithophel.
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